Sunday, January 17, 2010

Moon, Saturn and hard aspects

Oops, this post flew away before I ended it...Maybe it was high time that it went? I was just thinking out loud about Moon and Saturn.

A day before yesterday (for others yesterday) I wrote about Pat Robertson. I mentioned the Moon in Capricorn conjunct Saturn in his chart (together with his Sun inconjunct Neptune), related to blaming the Haitian victims. Later I spoke to a family member with Moon in Sagittarius conjunct Saturn, on the Ascendant. That makes the aspect important in her chart. She said she didn’t know if Robertson was right or wrong (hesitating). I also saw a comment about a fan of Mr. Robertson, also with Moon in Capricorn conjunct Saturn. It is Moon-Saturn time!
I have a family of Moon-Saturn people and some of them have Moon conjunct Saturn. From this point of view, I see Moon conjunct Saturn as emotions hiding behind a stone wall. There may be door, but the door only opens for close, intimate and trusted happy few persons. You may enter the circle if you are close, but strictly on their terms and once you hurt them, you are out (unless you are needed). Others just face the bricks and hit the wall or a decent, polite smile. When a Moon-Saturn ages, it is obvious that he/she love regularity more than others do. The Moon-Saturn seems to be happier with old age than others are. That might be because rules, limitations and restrictions simply suite them. They are not fond of surprises, big parties and a crowded living room. Consistency in habits, that is what they want, and time schedules. Moon-Saturn people are great at taking care for the elderly, too. Their old fashioned manners are a great help on the job!

WALL
Often those bricks in the wall were built with tears shed in a long forgotten period; most of the time however it is the Moon-Saturn who keeps placing new layers of bricks on the wall. They construct them with the concrete of nasty experiences and fear, felt offenses, and the fear to be rejected. This is even stronger when the Moon and Saturn are angular or rising before the Sun. It takes a lot of smiles and warmth to break the ice around a Moon-Saturn. Those who don’t follow the Moon-Saturn’s rules will never really belong to the inner circle. Rules and traditions and time plannings need to be respected in the house of a Moon-Saturn. They often don’t need a crowd around them and don’t mind being alone for a period of time. That makes it easy to shape a distance.


BAD MEMORIES
For a Moon – Saturn it is easier to remember the nasty and bad events than to have good memories. Ask a Moon-Saturn about a recent party and they start complaining about the food, the waiter and the fact that someone sat on their chair. The aspects of the Moon in a chart don’t show what really happened, they show the response and the memory. It just might be that their company had a splendid night. In a family one child can have Moon-Saturn and the other one Moon-Jupiter and though they had the same parents the first one will remember the difficulties (and feel deserted) and the last one might be the most wanted child and feel great (whatever happened).

BREAKING
It is easier for a Capricorn Moon conjunct Saturn to break up with parents and family than it would be for a Moon Cancer conjunct Jupiter person, even in the same circumstances. With a tight conflict between Moon and Saturn it is also easy to feel guilt and shame about errors of the past. That is why they like to keep a distance, stick by the rules and be as ‘ normal’ and ‘ decent’ as they can be.

KEEPING UP APPEARANCES
Even with an easy trine between Moon and Saturn it is hard not to control feelings and cry in public, for example. Believe me, I know! I have Moon trine Saturn and when I get tears in my eyes, I walk away or put dark glasses on. Of course, with a Moon-Saturn family, it is always been ‘ not done’ to cry (“ why? You are old enough not to cry, aren’t you?”) Moon-Saturns have the feeling that they were thought not to show emotions and that it is better to keep it that way and they pass this message on to the next generation. Why? They don't want to look silly. It is very important for the Moon conjunct Saturn what the neighbourhood or family members might think of them. It is a bit like mrs. Bouquet in ‘ Keeping up appearances’ (the television serie is one of Queen Elizabeth’s favourites☺. But it is not about looking richer than you are, it is about looking cooler than you are.

In general, Moon-Saturn is afraid of personal emotional commitment, to avoid grieve. They start worrying when they have feelings for a person. So it is good for a Moon-Saturn person not to feel close and not to care unless the law or parenthood or feelings of guilt make it a necessity. Is that wrong? Is that hard? Is it cruel? Maybe. And yes, it is hard to hit a wall.

Let me give an example. A Moon conjunct Saturn lady noticed a woman, silenty crying over her food in a senior resident’s restaurant. ‘Oh, there she goes again’ she said with tight lips. ‘Her husband died two weeks ago and she hasn’t been able to stop crying, she says. But when she does, why in the restaurant? Is it just to draw attention…? Why doesn’t she move over to the ladies room when she feels it coming? How can she be so sad about a man who wasn’t even kind to her? You know, she complained about him a week before he died and now she misses him.’ No, she didn’t reach out. A professional did and gave the sobbing lady a handkerchief. ‘Ah’ said the Moon-Saturn, reaching for her bag, ‘ if you need some more, here they are…’. Moon-Saturn is very efficient in supplying what is needed, except when it is about emotions. Often they have had their share in their eyes and that is enough. Imagine that nurses would show and feel emotions all day. It would be unbearable (at least, in a Moon-Saturn’s eye:). They keep a certain emotional distance for professional reasons. Moon-Saturns do it for personal reasons, too.

MORE EXAMPLES

Another Moon conjunct Saturn (in Cancer), lost her mother when she was a young mother herself. She had broken with her mother soon after marriage, but they got together again (Cancer! They need a family). It is very hard for her to get connected to the remaining family members. She is only child and lives miles away from the rest. But, with Moon conjunct Saturn she also never shows feelings or mentions them.

Famous Moon - Saturns? I don’t know many of them, and that is because Moon-Saturn people are rarely popular. Like late Theo van Gogh, murdered because of his sometimes offending opinions by a muslim terrorist: Moon opposition Saturn. And like J.K. Rowling: Moon opposition Saturn. She manages to keep her private life for herself. Amanda Knox has the Moon and Saturn in Sagittarius (and that probably is of influence in the way that people see her; they don’t understand the lack of emotion on her face). George W. Bush has Moon 112.5 Saturn (square + half semisquare!).

And of course there is a seemingly exception: Princess Maxima of the Netherlands, with Moon in Aquarius square Saturn (and Sun conjunct Saturn). People often mention her spontaneous and cheerful ways. Venus trine the Sagittarian Ascendant gives her beauty and charm. That compensates a lot of what is efficient and cool, especially now that she is still ‘young’ and not in function as a queen. (Saturn is rising before her Sun, too: duty, protocol, ambition and status first, always with a charming presentation). It is a so much different style and moods than those of Princess Diana (who also had a late Aquarian Moon, but opposition Uranus.) It is all in control, and when she cried at the wedding it was one tear, caught in a handkerchief, and silent, of course, very decent. Royalty doesn’t cry. Nelson Mandela has a 12th house Scorpio Moon square Saturn. He also has a compensating Venus opposition Ascendant. That makes him a beloved person. See more about his chart…http://astropost.blogspot.com/2009/11/chart-of-nelson-mandela-day.html

Final example: Queen Mother Elizabeth (born August 4, 1900 at 00:30 GMT) had Moon in Scorpio semi square Saturn. Read about the relationship with her daughter in law…

CONCLUSION
Is there something good about Moon-Saturn? Yes there is. They are orderly and they are caring parents, though they won’t demonstrate their feelings. They use to stick to the law and the rules and they won’t keep you awake in the middle of the night because they are having a party. When they commit themselves, it is enduring and consistent. That is what I see in a Moon conjunct Saturn. It is just one little aspect in the complete picture of the chart. But when the aspect is prominent (on an angle, oriental) it is very very important for personal relations.





(c) http://astropost.blogspot.com

16 comments:

Michelle said...

Sophia Loren, David Bowie, and Francis Bacon (the artist) are all Moon-Saturn conjunction people. Aquarius, Leo, and Aries conjunctions.

AstroMarkt said...

Thanks for your info, Michelle!

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your post! It was so accurate AND interesting!

I have no aspects for depression in my chart, yet I DO have depression. I have Moon sextile Saturn by 1. I feel like there are many times my mom was cold and unfeeling toward me in childhood. The entire description fits me exactly!!

I think the watery moon is too delicate to be aspected by Saturn even in a trine or sextile. The Moon is in its fall in Capricorn, so this is not surprising.

I also believe that one should try to avoid aspects between Venus and planets such as Mars, Saturn and Pluto because Venus is in her fall and detriment in the signs they rule. I have also found that the Moon should also not aspect Mars because the Moon is in its detriment in Capricorn (the sign of Mars' exaltation).

I have found the natal chart works more smoothly when the Sun aspects Mars (Sun is exalted in Aries), the Moon does well with aspects to Venus and Jupiter for the same reason. Venus does well with Jupiter. And Mars does well with aspects from Saturn because Mars is exalted in Capricorn.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for such great info! Alex O'Loughlin from the new Hawaii 5-0 (Steve McGarrett) has a Moon Saturn conjunction in Leo. He was also in the movie The Backup Plan with Jennifer lopez. I can sort of see the coldness....even in his acting. He comes across as a very intense guy....very sexy of course, but sort of a scowling type. He rarely smiles. His data is Aug 24, 1976, so lots and lots of Virgo in there. He's also a north node in Scorpio, which is also not prone to a lot of emotion.
Interesting stuff!

Astromarkt said...

Txs for the comment! You might also like to read about the cool aspects and signs in the charts of attractive men: http://astropost.blogspot.com/2008/09/male-attraction-venus-saturn-taurus-and.html

lisa d. said...

charles baudelaire: moon square saturn

francisco goya idem

Anonymous said...

i just read your post about attaractive men and cool signs, and YES, it all fits! Speaking of the James Bond aspects, Alex O'Loughlin was said to be a contender for the new James Bond franchise a while ago! He does have hot Venus in cool virgo, and the moon saturn conjunction is very Saturnian indeed. I don't know his Asc, but its definitely not an overly expressive one. lol He also has hot Mars in cool Virgo, and I guess that warm Leo Moon gets all squashed by being conjunct Saturn. I was sort of wondering why he was becoming a sex symbol, but now its obvious. He's got that 'detached' hotness going on!!

Anonymous said...

I would think that Moon Saturn would be good for actors to have in general...as it would be 'controlled emotion.'

Astromarkt said...

Yeah, a professional way to keep up appearances:)...

yvonne said...

Yes, I see the Moon Saturn as being rather reserved emotionally, but what about Moon Saturn conjunct in Leo? Wouldn't the Leo Moon be all about emotional dramatics...or wanting to be in the spotlight? How would it work for Leo?

Astromarkt said...

Hi Yvonne, a sophisticated Leo Moon conjunct Saturn could  be an ambitious show or drama queen, looking down at the common people from her tower, feeling alone and having difficulties to reach out. I guess...See abt Moon and Saturn in Leo: http://astropost.blogspot.com/2008/04/leo-all-about-sunsign-leo-moon-in-leo.html
Example: David Bowie had Moon conjunct Saturn in Leo on the descendant: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bowie,_David

Anonymous said...

In my chart Gemini and Capricorn are the stronger signs. I have Moon conjuct Saturn and Sun conjunct Jupter: I hate being lonely and shy. I love the idea of meeting people and talk to them, share ideas, but when I have the opportunity, all I do is stand quiet, afraid of what they will think about me. It's a hell sometimes. I woud prefer to be a jerk like Pat Robertson than being a splited person like me.

Anonymous said...

I would prefer to have a Moon-Jupiter trine instead:)!

Anonymous said...

there are many very famous people with moon saturn conjunction, Cary Grant, David Bowie, Joan Craford, the last one, because of the very harsh childhood and later worcaholism, lost her mind and disinherited her children, perhaps convincing herself that it was a right thing to do. i have noticed that peole with this aspect have an unusual photogenic gift for the screen, perhaps because through the arts their psyche feels trust to just be and shine.Take Cary grant for instance, though he was a very good parent.

Barb said...

I have Venus square Saturn (exact), and I find the part about loving regularity and rules applies to me too. I hate surprises...I like knowing what's coming up, Want control. The emotional wall isn't quite as strong with Venus aspecting Saturn as it is with the Moon. Its take me a while to trust, but I'm more open i think...my Moon is in Cancer, and is 12 degrees inconjuncting Saturn, which may be too big an orb to have a huge influence emotionally.

shanna tillman said...

I know this post is from several years ago, but I just saw it and felt obliged to comment. My moon is conjunct saturn, and while I can agree with some of the characteristics you noted, I don't believe that much of this has to do with moon-saturn. It occurred to me as I was reading about your many family members with moon in hard aspect to saturn, that you have come to relate what you dislike about certain family members with this aspect. That being said, I think you are overgeneralizing some of these negative characteristics because of your own unpleasant experiences, which may have little to do with the moon and saturn. For example, I don't believe that the intolerance and religious conservatism that you discussed are clear traits of this aspect. Oftentimes saturn has more to do with pain and struggle than it has to do with the coldness and or/aloofness that you talked about. Personally, I'm a bleeding heart, Buddhist, liberal and take the humanitarian efforts of George Clooney, another moon-saturn conjunct individual as another contradiction to your hypothesis. While there is no doubt that moon in hard aspect to saturn is a challenging aspect, there is much good that can come from this challenge if the challenge is met. You mention nothing of the humility, endurance and fine sense of humor that often comes with this aspect. You also don't seem to appreciate how a person can end up becoming stronger than most in the area afflicted by saturn, if they do meet the challenge head on. I have experienced a lot of emotional struggles and pain in my life, but I have also done a lot of work on myself. As is often true of this aspect, the older I get the more I experience the positive effects of all of the work I have done on myself. I believe I am wiser, happier and more emotionally balanced than most as a result.